JambonVapeur
Membre
Que dites-vous et pourquoi ? 
Linux ou GNU/Linux ?
- Auteur de la discussion JambonVapeur
- Date de début
ClownWorld
Membre
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
JambonVapeur
Membre
Yeah yeah you're right
ClownWorld
Membre
Bon sans troller cette fois: je dis "linux" par-ce que tout le monde sait que quand on dit linux on sous-entends gnu/linux. Les utilisations de linux sans gnu étant anecdotiques quand on parle de systèmes d'exploitations pour pc/serveur.
Aussi j'évite de parler de linux si le contexte n'est pas approprié, par-ce que je pense que les évangélistes de linux sont généralement contre productifs, par-ce que je n'ai pas envie de passer pour un vieux geek en société et par-ce que j'ai d'autres centres d’intérêt et que mon ego n'est pas basé sur quel OS ou quel language de programmation j'utilise au quotidien. Les outils que j'utilise servent un but mais ne font pas partie de mon identité.
Aussi j'évite de parler de linux si le contexte n'est pas approprié, par-ce que je pense que les évangélistes de linux sont généralement contre productifs, par-ce que je n'ai pas envie de passer pour un vieux geek en société et par-ce que j'ai d'autres centres d’intérêt et que mon ego n'est pas basé sur quel OS ou quel language de programmation j'utilise au quotidien. Les outils que j'utilise servent un but mais ne font pas partie de mon identité.
JambonVapeur
Membre
Tu n'es pas un vieux barbu dans son garage, ça fait plaisir.
Je dis Linux. Le GNU est sous-entendu et tout le monde dit Linux de toute façon.Que dites-vous et pourquoi ?
Je trouve que les raisons que les gens mettent en avant pour ne pas utiliser Linux sont généralement valides, et que l'aspect le plus relou des Témoins de Linus c'est qu'ils ont tendance à minimiser ça, ce qui donne l'impression de ne pas être écouté.
JambonVapeur
Membre
En soi si on est dans un but de créditer ceux qui font partie du projet, il faudrait citer aussi X11 par exemple.
Je suis d'accordJe trouve que les raisons que les gens mettent en avant pour ne pas utiliser Linux sont généralement valides, et que l'aspect le plus relou des Témoins de Linus c'est qu'ils ont tendance à minimiser ça, ce qui donne l'impression de ne pas être écouté.
Notice
Membre validé
C'est pas tout le monde qui utilise Xorg, ou même une une interface graphique tout court (la majorité des machines sous linux)
Pareil
JambonVapeur
Membre
Une remarque qu'on m'a sorti quand je posais cette question à un camarade utilisant linux est la suivante : "Il faudrait dire MS/Windows si on commence à parler de la sorte". Ça me paraissait vraiJe dis Linux aussi, pour les mêmes raisons, dire "gnoulinoux" ou "gnulinux" à l'oral c'est relou et ça te fait juste passer pour un demeuré. Après bien sûr il ne faut pas oublier la contribution de GNU.
anti-electron
Membre
No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.
Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.
One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?
(An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.
Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.
You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.
Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?
If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:
Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag.
Thanks for listening.
anti-electron
Membre
"I use Linux as my operating system," I state proudly to the unkempt, bearded man. He swivels around in his desk chair with a devilish gleam in his eyes, ready to mansplain with extreme precision. "Actually", he says with a grin, "Linux is just the kernel. You use GNU+Linux!' I don't miss a beat and reply with a smirk, "I use Alpine, a distro that doesn't include the GNU Coreutils, or any other GNU code. It's Linux, but it's not GNU+Linux."
The smile quickly drops from the man's face. His body begins convulsing and he foams at the mouth and drops to the floor with a sickly thud. As he writhes around he screams "I-IT WAS COMPILED WITH GCC! THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GNU!" Coolly, I reply "If windows were compiled with GCC, would that make it GNU?" I interrupt his response with "-and work is being made on the kernel to make it more compiler-agnostic. Even if you were correct, you won't be for long."
With a sickly wheeze, the last of the man's life is ejected from his body. He lies on the floor, cold and limp. I've womansplained him to death.
The smile quickly drops from the man's face. His body begins convulsing and he foams at the mouth and drops to the floor with a sickly thud. As he writhes around he screams "I-IT WAS COMPILED WITH GCC! THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GNU!" Coolly, I reply "If windows were compiled with GCC, would that make it GNU?" I interrupt his response with "-and work is being made on the kernel to make it more compiler-agnostic. Even if you were correct, you won't be for long."
With a sickly wheeze, the last of the man's life is ejected from his body. He lies on the floor, cold and limp. I've womansplained him to death.
anti-electron
Membre
Plus sérieusement, GNU/Linux car je suis un vieux barbu
Mais pour éviter le controverse, je préfère juste dire le nom de la distro
Mais pour éviter le controverse, je préfère juste dire le nom de la distro